Guest Article - Voting For WZO (Eretz Hakodesh) - The Only Honest And Comprehensive Analysis
Chapter 1
The Chafetz Chaim's issur
In the 1920s, Klal Yisroel was in flux. Life in Russia, the center of Judaism, had just undergone an upheaval, with all institutions defunct.
Out of the ashes, various organizations attempted to step in the breach. The plan here was not limited to the benefit of their members, each of them wished to adopt the leadership of Klal Yisroel. They saw Klal Yisroel and their energy, messiras nefesh, and hopes, and wished to harness that to their ideals. Zionism was a real option, as difficult as it is to see from our perspective. People were desperate for freedom, and saw how this movement promised them the moon. Of course, the flip side was that Zionist leaders were almost all non-frum or even anti-frum, and the frum perspective was barely tolerated.
Gedolei Yisroel attempted to rebuild Klal Yisroel through Agudas Yisroel, Yeshivos, and newly built Kehillos, in Poland, in direct opposition to the Zionist dream. The dream of Zionism was seductive, both Jewish and universal at the same time, and promised great returns. Klal Yisroel was in serious danger from their movement, and Agudas Yisroel was founded in order to organize those that wished to keep Torah as they always had. They had no problem with building Eretz Yisroel, encouraging aliyah, or taking care of social issues, but the central focus, according to the Litvishe Gedolim, was Yeshivos and Torah.
When the Zionist movement realized that Agudas Yisroel was a formidable force, they attempted to have them enter the umbrella of their organization, granting them control over Yeshivos and access to the energy, hopes, and messiras nefesh of the Charedim of the time. In return, the Yeshivos would be supported by the general public who preferred Zionism to Torah.
Although the Litvishe mindset was always against parochialism and narrow parties, and the idea of separatism was anathema to them, the Gedolim transcended this belief and refused to join this organization, even at the price of the support of Yeshivos.
The idea that the Chafetz Chaim's pesak has any bearing on the world nowadays, is only possible if someone doesn't understand why he ever forbade it in the first place. Unfortunately, seeing as we have no written pesak from him, nor any clear mesorah about it (someone who was about 10 when Reb Aaron was niftar is not a source for anything, especially when he too is not really quoting his words), people have this mistaken idea that there was a 'technical' issur of joining an organization called the WZO, which flies in the face of everything Gedolei Yisroel have written about the topic of התחברות לרשעים, including Reb Chaim Ozer, the Chazon Ish, and the actions of all talmidei chachamim in all countries of our galus.
Now, we have a vote in front of us. Nobody is asking us or our mosdos to submit to their authority, and there is no sugya of uniting Klal Yisroel under one authority. Zionism exists as it is, and is not at any crossroads. Voting means having a voice in how a charity foundation distributes its money. Either we have a voice or we don't. Nothing more than that.
Chapter 2
The Board of Rabbis
Some have hung their hat on the issur on joining the Synagogue Council of America and the New York Board of Rabbis. This was an attempt to unite the Rabbis of all streams of Judaism as one.
Reb Aaron Kotler with another 10 Roshei Yeshiva firmly forbade it, and Reb Moshe has a teshuva about it. American Jewry at the time was still undefined, and people considered all three 'streams' as legitimate. Just like most of us see different chassidus or darkei halimud as equally legitimate, even as we push our own beliefs. Orthodox Shuls were turning Conservative at a frightening rate, and the lines were quite blurred.
On this backdrop, the Gedolim attempted to create consensus about the borders of acceptability in Orthodox Judaism. Although many people may not be yeshivaleit, they still keep mitzvos, and they could not rely on people's kanna'us to keep them away from the heretical ideas of heterodoxy. Joining an organization that represents Rabbis and includes 'rabbis' like the conservative and reform clergypeople is a blurring of those lines.
For various reasons, full consensus could not be reached, as the RCA and Rav Soloveichik did not come on board. It is difficult to assess the outcome of this lack of achdus and failure to set the fence's parameters. On the one hand, the heterodoxical movements did not really affect orthodoxy as a belief system. But individuals were surely confused about this, and we cannot know how many Orthodox organizations lost members and had to close down because of this.
However, this too was not a technical issur of התחברות לרשעים, there was a clear objective and issue in front of them, and the prohibition was based on these considerations. Rav Soloveichik had a point when he did not wish to write Yidden out of Klal Yisroel, even if they were not religious. Nobody thought he was a rasha or avaryan for his disagreement, they were merely upset with him for not joining them in their campaign.
Again, this has nothing to do with the matter at hand. At stake here is the board of a large charity fund and how to distribute it. We can either control that money and steer it to pro-Torah ideals, or we can allow it to reach anti-Torah actions and plans.
Chapter 3
The danger today
In recent years, the reform movement has become less and less relevant to Jews. Their adoption of leftist ideals as their primary religion has locked out half of their constituency, and their lack of true ideals has rendered them unimportant to their own base. Americans rarely live their 'shitta', and will never get excited about anything that is not food or a ball flying through the air.
Israelis, on the other hand, are idealistic and driven. Their energy spells a future and their army service grants them energy and drive that is unmatched in the US. If the reform movement could harness that to their train, they believe they can revitalize their dead movement.
But Israelis are not as foolish as Americans, and it is hard to sell watered-down pap like the reform religion to crusty sabras. The reform movement needed to get in at the ground floor, and have been laying the groundwork for years. First, they needed to get into schools and universities. So far, the only Judaism the secular Israeli recognizes is Torah Judaism. Now, they will see reform as an alternative. Reform religion doesn't have the baggage of corrupt politicians and lack of army service that Torah Judaism has, and Israelis may accept it, even though they know it stands for nothing.
Another plan of the reform movement is to control the message in the US. When Zionist organizations take Americans for a trip to Israel, they need to be sure that they are only inspired sufficiently to revitalize their connection to their reform temple, not anything else. By controlling those trips and ensuring they see IDF bases, night clubs, factories, and the few reform temples Israel has to offer, they limit the chance that the Israel trip will backfire.
The WZO money was a means to this end, as they will control the purse strings to push their agenda and approve their plans.
The Modern Orthodox communities, at least the idealistic among them, see the reform threat for what it is. Although reform Judaism isn't infiltrating Cheder Ohr Torah or Orchos Chaim in Lakewood, they are a factor in 'out-of-town' communities, and those with a connection to Eretz Yisroel starkly perceive this danger. Rabbi Pesach Lerner is almost singlehandedly credited with the prevention of female Rabbis' infiltration into the MO orbit, and he is a true fighter of their community.
Eretz Hakodesh is their way of fighting back. Their delegates are far from a serious minority, let alone a majority, in the WZO Board. But they have gently steered the decisions in our favor. No rational person will expect them to achieve total utopia, but if visitors to Israel go to the Kosel during their trip, that is an achievement. If money is directed to helping Chutzniks in EY, including seminaries and Yeshivos, that is an achievement. If the message of the WZO can include some Judaism, that is an achievement. And these are all steps in the right direction.
Chapter 4
Money without the court
However, the underlying issue here, that has not been discussed, is the source of most of the problems facing Charedim in Eretz Yisroel. This is the Bagatz. The Supreme Court in Israel is quite powerful and quite leftist in orientation. Of course, as Torah Jews, neither the 'right' nor the 'left' represent us. But the leftist orientation of the court does not allow many Charedi initiatives to survive, including, but not limited to, the ability for a person to learn Torah instead of going to the army. The WZO does not directly influence the court, but has two distinct features that could help us in these battles.
First, the Supreme Court controls the government's purse. If a Charedi town is proposed, or a security measure that will benefit all Jews, the progressive court is likely to overthrow it as discriminatory. WZO is not subject to the court's oversight, and can do what its board decides. This means that many initiatives that would not withstand court scrutiny can be undertaken. Additionally, the WZO can control the public discourse, and the reform movement is by and large against the judicial reform that might currently rescue our brothers in EY from the draft. Controlling those purse strings means preventing money from being used for demonstrations and other activities that would limit this reform.
There are more benefits to voting, but the basic idea is that the WZO has power and influence over Yidden, and we either exert influence or cede the ground. As Reb Reuven Grozovsky writes in Be'ayos Hazman, the job of the Aguda is to join the boards of local organizations to ensure that they are not detrimental to Torah ideals.
Chapter 5
Signing the Declaration
Some have claimed that voting in the WZO elections entails declaring belief in the Jerusalem Program, which is the central mission statement of the WZO and its purpose, which is heretical and forbidden.
This may be an issue, but let us examine the historical context of this question. Since our migration to the West and the full emancipation of Klal Yisroel, has this question not come up time and time again? Did our ancestors and Rebbeim not pursue US citizenship, including pledging allegiance to the heretical ideas of freedom and democracy? Do our Yeshivos not declare their egalitarian status, accepting people whose lifestyles and beliefs are anathema to us? Do we not vote and participate in governmental bodies where our representatives must pledge allegiance daily? Do the Chavrei Knesset not have to swear to uphold the Zionist’s laws, even when they are not based on Torah?
This question has been decided already, through countless decisions of Gedolei Yisroel. This is especially true regarding Zionism. When the Steipler was asked about acquiescing to Avoda Zara by voting in the Israeli elections, his answer was that the belief in the State of Israel as aschalta dige’ula is not heretical, it is merely a mistake. A person who believes so is not a rasha and there is no heter to speak Lashon Hara about him. The Jerusalem Program is no different.
Let us examine the program and find the heresy involved.
They believe in the unity of the Jewish people and its bond to Eretz Yisroel with the centrality (whatever that means) of the State of Israel and Jerusalem its capital.
No heresy there.
They believe in strengthening the State, striving for peace, ensuring the future of the Jewish people, nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, and settling the country.
Still no heresy.
They believe in encouraging recruitment and service in the IDF, as well as encouraging National Service for those exempt by law.
This may not be our opinion, but it is certainly not heresy. Our Rebbeim taught us that learning Torah is more important than serving in the IDF. How are they contradictory?
Of course, we can nitpick and find heresy wherever we look. But as long as we don’t live our lives like that, signing forms and accepting agreements without such nitpicking, there is no reason to treat this Program any differently.
Chapter 6
Who are they?
Some have brought up another, more relevant, issue.
We are being encouraged to vote for a slate of people whom we do not know. In the Israeli elections, people vote with the understanding that Gedolei Yisroel have veto power over the actions and statements of the MKs, and our trust is in their decisions. In this case, no Gedolim have declared responsibility over their actions, and the delegates are not Gedolei Yisroel themselves. Some live with different beliefs to us.
Fortunately, this question too has been decided many times in history. Agudas Yisroel was founded as an answer to Mizrachi, and refused to join them when offered to do so in 1937. Yet, in any town in Israel where an Agudah slate could not run, it was always self-understood that Charedim vote for Mizrachi. This was in Ramat Gan, Yerucham, Kfar Chassidim, and many other towns in Israel. Yes, the Mizrachi did not submit themselves to our Gedolim. But we vote for the best slate that we can.
If Agudas Yisroel was running a slate, we would vote for them. But now that they are not, we must vote for whomever is most likely to represent the closest to our interests.
No, not everything that is decided in the next World Zionist Congress will be to our liking. But the difference between their decisions with our input and without is immeasurable. And that should be our only agenda.
wow, this is fascinating. I was in BMG by the Asifah against the WZO and in the end i think what you write here is very logical. Thank you very much, this is a source of clarity for all the con fusion going on
ReplyDeleteI saw somewhere that there were articles published by Agudah at the time of the ban on joining the Board of Rabbis explaining the ban in detail. Does anyone know where I can find these articles?
ReplyDeleteYou can find them in the old Jewish Observers which are easy to find online with a google search.
DeleteHold a second you quote reb Reuven’s saying the Job of the Agudah etc…. But you don’t mention that reb reuven writes in that Sefer that voting in wzo is assur?????
ReplyDeleteOf course, those that learned his Sefer know that he never actually wrote that. In fact, he doesn't discuss the topic at all.
DeleteOf course those that actually read his Sefer know that it was written but not printed by him and that he discusses what could be a heter to join the Knesset but not to wzo
DeleteBut please keep writing nonsense
Right, he never mentions the WZO. He talks about the Knesset. When he talks about an organization that directs communal funds, he says the Agudah should get involved. When he talks about a legislative body, he also says the Agudah should get involved.
DeleteBringing Reb Reuven's name into this is a red herring, when he doesn't discuss the issues at hand.
That’s simply false. Reb Reuven is coming to give a heter in joining the Knesset (this heter was mot given for anything in else) the 2 reasons he gives did and does not apply to the wzo hence Agudah never joined wzo. One heter for joining a parliament is that its not connected to any shita for example there’s Arabs in the Knesset but you’d never find an Arab party in the wzo. There is no signing a Jerusalem program from the Knesset because you don’t have to believe in Zionism to be a part of it it’s made to form and uphold laws for the citizens of the country regardless of there beliefs. As oppose to the world Zionist congress which is described in its name and is specifically designed to represent Jews from the diaspora to connect them with Israel is precisely Zionism. So no bringing Reb Reuven is not a red herring but saying that he didn’t mention the lettersWZO is.
DeleteMaybe, just maybe, if you organized your thoughts sufficiently to write coherent sentences, you would realize how off the mark you are.
DeleteReb Reuven said nothing about signing off on a Jerusalem Program. The closest we have to our situation is the local federations of his time. And he was pro. Yes, there are differences, so nobody can use Reb Reuven's name to vote. But you certainly cannot use his name against voting. And the original comment was a clear mistake.
Joining the Knesset requires swearing allegiance to the State. I don't know who told you any different.
DeletePlease stop showing off your lack of knowledge on the topic. Reb reuven in Baos hazman page 66 regarding the heter to join the Knesset says “ומה שרוצים לדמות את זה למה שאסרו רבותינו זצ״ל להתחבר עמם ולשלוח שלוחינו לקונגרסים הציוניים הא לא דמי וכו״
DeleteSo yes Reb Reuven clearly mentions the world Zionist congress and says it’s assur to join which in those days everyone knew And please if you don’t know it’s ok but don’t make believe you know.
And if you have an issue with comprehending a basic sentence ask for help but don’t put words in someone else’s mouth. No one said Reb Reuven mentioned the Jerusalem program the point of bringing in the Jerusalem program was to back Reb reuvens point that he says that joining Knesset is not saying you believe in Zionism swearing allegiance to the state is loyalty to the government but nothing about Zionism. As opposed to the wzo… that’s all, very simple. This is not my svara it’s Reb reuvens and if you don’t like the svara to matir then no problem you can side with the Eida hachreides and not vote in the Knesset. But never in the last 120+ years did any frum rabbi say you can vote bar the mizrachi and recently shas. The ego oozing out of these comments has f commenting without knowing is astounding
Again, an incoherent word salad with confused thoughts.
DeleteAgudas Yisroel joined with the Mizrachi in one Knesset, holding their noses. When they joined with PAI, they also held their noses. When they didn't need PAI or Mizrachi, they went alone. As they did in many towns in Eretz Yisroel in the local elections.
You not being able to comprehend a sentence doesn’t make it incoherent. You said Reb Reuven never mentioned wzo and I quoted him otherwise unclear what is incoherent about that.
DeleteI apologize but I have no idea what your trying to say in your second paragraph or what it has to do with this conversation
Reb Reuven does not discuss voting for delegates in the WZO. He references a story that happened before his times, when the situation was not even slightly similar to our situation, and compared that to voting in the Knesset.
DeleteHe did not offer an opinion on voting for the direction of funds, when there is no partnership involved.
Again Reb Reuven does discuss it as I quoted above I don’t know why you keep denying that your making stuff up Rene Reuven never said to vote for direction of funds I have no problem discussing this but if you choose to ignore the facts and make things up it’s useless to discuss with you
Deletewhy go back to reb reuven every amercian charedi today is against voting wzo are they all fools?
DeleteReb reuven is the one who maitired joining the Knesset (only the Knesset)so when someone says joining wzo is the same as joining the Knesset it would make sense to bring reb reuven
DeleteEven if Kefira is not an issue, there is still the issue of signing onto the Jerusalem program. If someone agrees with it, they can sign it and vote for one of the five frum parties. If they do not agree with the Jerusalem program, I don’t see the heter to check that box.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know of there still being an inyan to get רש"י matzos? The reasons I have seen in earlier poskim do not seem to still apply.
ReplyDeleteIm looking for a job on shabbos anyone can help? It’s a big mitzvah I can make sure a reform Jew doesn’t get the job and I’ll be doing a mitzvah by taking money away from the reform
ReplyDeleteTy in advance
So all this discussion is nice theory, but has no place in the real world once HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky shlita and his son his Rav Sholom are clearly on the record stating flat out voting in WZO is 100% assur. Hear for yourself on his hotline 8483738882
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's any more room left for discussions. At what point do we submit to daas torah? And at what point is the torah open for all to be their own maan-diamar? I think this settled the argument and clarified there really aren't two sides.
It seems that there is another confusion at play. This time, it seems those that are running the maaracha against voting for Eretz Hakodesh are truly clueless. There is a factor that not only they have not considered, but cannot consider. There are Gedolei Yisroel who believe that machlokes is a bad thing, and are willing to stifle their opinions so as not to cause a rift.
ReplyDeleteReb Elya Brudny and Reb Shmuel Kamenetzky both proclaimed loudly that voting for Eretz Hakodesh is a positive thing. If they are not publicly issuing any statements this time, it is obvious because they do not want machlokes. There is no precedent to an issur on this voting, and they have not announced any issur.
Anyone who wishes to know the truth can discover how many Gedolei Yisroel are still of the opinion that we should vote in these elections. Reb Moshe Hillel has told countless people to vote, Reb Eliyahu Levin has consistenly held that it is correct to vote, and himself voted last time and this (no, he wasn't chozer. Whatever rumor has been spread, he has denied it).
The idea that 'all Charedim' have an opinion here is just not true.
Additionally, many Chassidic leaders are encouraging the vote. Reb Shaul Alter is a man de'amar in all circles, and he is telling people to vote. I think his opinion counts far more than that of Reb Malkiel, but that's just my position. Especially as he lives in Eretz Yisroel and was crowned for his position with no external factors, against much opposition.
Please remove your comment your causing machlokes
DeleteThis entire discussion is pathetic
ReplyDeleteThis is a mitzvah haba beavara ano mitzsvah voting in the WZO shows u think reshayim can help us and Hashem cant ..If u dont see this your haskafah is faulty. y c schwab
DeleteAnyone here from Chicago? Looking to confirm or quash a rumor about Rabbi Fuerst retracting from his WZO endorsement, anyone hear the speech he gave?
ReplyDeleteToo bad you don't see it, but klal yisroel is more in flux today than ever. Strong ideological lines must drawn.
ReplyDeleteThere was a bad quality audio from R' Sholom on hotline about wzo and now it's gone, does anyone have a link for it?
ReplyDeleteAnyone?
DeleteWhat's the hotline number
DeleteAs we have been claiming for so long, the true beneficiaries of this fight are the Conservative and reform movements.
ReplyDeleteNow we find out that they were the ones paying for it all along.
Are you referring to what was recently uncovered that they are paying the anti Eretz Hakodesh movement? What are the details?
Deletehttps://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2390512/revealed-israel-conservative-movement-published-fake-chareidi-ads-in-name-of-gedolei-yisrael.html
DeleteA new level of התחברות לרשעים. Reb Malkiel and Rav Feldman have joined forces with the conservative and reform movements to fight Eretz Hakodesh. For no benefit at all.
ReplyDeleteSee you all again in 5 years, looks like ekel hakodesh lost this round. Better luck next time פתח.
ReplyDeleteFor those with megushemdige kep, Eretz Hakodesh lost. After all, Reb Malkiel yarshened a greater real estate empire than Rabbi Pesach Lerner and Nechemiah Malinowitz, and in the world of real estate, he wins.
DeleteHowever, those who don't live lives of real estate, power, and politics are not impressed by these kinds of wins.
True שנאה מקלקלת את השורה.
Deletedoes anybody have the letter from rav eliyahu regarding wzo?
ReplyDeleteZman started, we can get busy with WZO again.
ReplyDeleteA long letter came out from R Sholom explain the lies of those who claim R Shmuel supports it.
ReplyDeletePlease share so we can post it. fixinglakewood@gmail.com
DeleteIt's being treated as top secret, it's only for the eyes of certain gedolim, for anyone else the letter is not being made public, so that both sides can continue their claims.
DeleteIf you don't have it, you're out of the loop.
DeletePlease share it with us losers at fixinglakewood@gmail.com we are desperate, pretty please with a cherry on top.
DeleteFixing, you'll never post the letter because wipes the floor with the entire pro-wzo chatzer and exposes their deceit. Not the angle you are pushing. So why do you want the letter?
DeleteI haven't gotten permission from R' Sholom K to post his entire letter, so I'll only post the concluding sentence.
Deleteהיוצא מכל הנ"ל, שאין לתלות דבר פסק בענין זה על מעמדו של אאמו"ר שליט"א. נקודה.
Anon 6:53 It seems you have not read our own articles on the subject and you have glossed over our posting a guest article against voting. You clearly suffer from the small-minded sickness of radicalism in which an extreme, delusional narrative forms in your head without any input from a logical mind. You see an article posted on our blog; you do not bother reading our other articles, or if you do you only pick up on the fact that there is nuance - something your puny brain cannot understand, hence it simply implodes; you jump to the conclusion we are promoting the Eretz Hakodesh agenda, and are not capable of understanding that even were that to be the case, we are not extremists and would have no problem posting an opposing view. All in all, you are a prime embodiment of the mindset we are attempting to Fix. Perhaps we can use you as our guinea pig to study and experiment on. Though in your case we would only do that with parental consent.
Delete@7:48 With a comment this childish I can only hope you have parental consent to blog
Delete@8:58 You do sort of prove @7:48's point of childishness and immaturity. Why don't you speak to his point?
Delete@7:48,@8:58,@9:37 I know a playgroup that still has a few openings for this zman, I think all of you should join.
DeleteIt's not just rumors anymore, finally an interview with a talmid of Rav Eliyahu detailing Rav Eliyahu's unconventional shita regarding voting in WZO election.
ReplyDeleteHear it on the Kol BaYar hotline 8483738882
unfortunately i cant share letter
ReplyDeletewhat I can share is that reb shalom elaborates how at the previous wzo election cycle his father was wholly against eretz hakodesh and his good name was used contrary to his wishes and why his father didnot publicly object
I can't wait to make a ברוך שפטרני on this entire topic
ReplyDeleteWHY WOULD ANYONE JOIN THE WORLD ZONAHS ORGANIZATION??????
ReplyDeleteWhat's the question, if someone is a zohah it would be most appropriate for them to join!!
DeleteLet's all say it together "GOOD RIDDANCE"
ReplyDeleteWhen are the results released?
ReplyDeleteScary how much fraud there was by the so-called frum party. No only did they lie to us, they also cheated on the elections, what does that tell you about them
ReplyDeleteSince when is a bunch of yeshiva bachurim voting from the same IP address in the same location within minutes of each other fraud?
DeleteAll with prepaid credit cards purchased in bulk. It's not fraud, it's just the way we roll.
DeleteYou can't pay someone else voting fee and other regulation, it's not fraud but it against the wzo rules. But who cares about their rules, it's only a check box and nobody means it anyways. Right?
DeleteIP address the same because people using filtered computers and devices, and the filter companies have a small range of IP addresses.
DeleteLook how the lies spread, EHK got rabbi Schachter of yu to fall head over heels for the conservative operatives lie.
DeletePost-Election Statement – ARZA:
ReplyDeleteIt is now clear that the more than 10,000 fraudulent votes, which are public knowledge, might only be the tip of the iceberg. The evidence is overwhelming: slates attempting to manipulate the election used prepaid debit cards, unverifiable phone numbers, identical addresses, and additional unethical tactics. This is not just misconduct. It is corruption.
The American Zionist Movement must not allow this attempt to tamper with this election to succeed. These acts were an intentional, organized effort designed to distort representation, divert communal funds, and subvert the very ideals on which the Zionist movement was built. We say to the AZM and those responsible for the appeals process: do not whitewash their actions with a slap on the wrist.
it goes without saying that any fraudulent votes should be thrown out. But that alone is not enough. Any slate found to have perpetrated or potentially benefited from this fraud must be disqualified. They have no place in the Parliament of the Jewish People.
eretz hakodesh crying about sneaky conservative operatives while running a sophisticated voter fraud operation
ReplyDeleteCongratulations Lerner!!! good job getting yu headmaster rabbi to attack bmg with your deceptions.
ReplyDeleteWhen are we going to get an article about eretz hakodesh PR campaign? The real scandal of this story
ReplyDeleteLerner who no longer has a job in the young Israel still hungry for money and power started ehk (the mizrachi slate didn’t let him be a delegate since 2015) decided to start his own scam of a slate he shlepps Malinowitz to work for him telling him how he will get money for his igud Beni yeshivas organization Malinowitz goes along with this scam lying about reb Chaim reb gershon reb shmuel lying about the whole conservative “conspiracy” begging ppl to help get votes “influencers/ hockers” offering them money for votes that they bring in paying 100’s of thousands of dollars on marketing campaigns and ads a bunch of liars and this is only the tip of the iceberg
ReplyDeleteDoes your keyboard have a period and comma keys?
DeleteNegative
DeleteYou know nothing
Delete4:56 relax relax soon a lot of things will be revealed. Let’s say things that Lerner and Malinowitz won’t be excited are leaked to the public. Save your energy for then
Delete@822 YOU'RE A LIAR YOU'VE GOT GORNISHT
DeleteMore fake big talk from kanoyim, get off this blog you don't belong here, kanoyim not welcome
DeleteLerner would be better off going back to his mizrachi buddies and Malinowitz should get a real job
ReplyDeleteBut what will he do with his new hat?
DeleteTheres still boatloads to say about this topic, it wasnt explored properly due to the pr onslaught, iyh true clarity will come forth
ReplyDeleteSad to see that some frum ppl were taken for a ride by Malinowitz and Lerner. Nebach there are those young hotheads who think they are big Askanim and never were taught the proper hashkafos. They think they know everything and both by being paid and volunteer are trying to get others to vote. If only they would know how low they have fallen
ReplyDeleteWho are you calling a hothead?
DeleteWho do you think?
ReplyDeleteSome people think that Lerner's actions are wrong. He wants to help Yidden through the WZO and they think that is not the way to do things.
ReplyDeleteFine.
But what is driving them to malign him personally, his motivations, and his character? Does their position carry no weight on its own? Are they admitting that the whole התחברות לרשעים business is not their real motivation?
His organization ran a disgusting corrupt and deceptive campaign he's the top man, he's responsible, he gave people every right to despise him personally.
DeleteSo many haters on this blog this is like DIN,there’s no need for a new blog like that one. Even the name of this blog is all about hating. What ever happened to ahavas yisroel? Or that doesn’t apply if the yisroel is frummer than you?
ReplyDeleteI came here, saw there 83 comments, when this morning there were 82.
ReplyDeleteAnd not one comment has been added.
What's going on?